really couldn’t think of a better title… oh well…
This one falls into that political area I normally stay out of..but.. after reading this post on Judi’s site.. I had to read more.
Turns out.. Judi sums it up pretty nicely..A guy who has his blog hosted on Typepad (ran by six apart – the movable type guys). Had a post where someone left comments he didn’t like. So, instead of doing what any other MT using blogger would do, and either delete the comments, and ban the user from the blog..and leaving it at that… he decides that because he found this person’s comments offensive and hateful…that this person should be banned from posting comments on ANY blog hosted by Typepad.
So.. I go and read this post on Mr. Silverstein… in which he states his opinion that because Six-Apart won’t ban this user globally..that they are condoning what he said.
I read the original comments (which Mr. Silverstein has gone in and edited, although he does clearly mark his comments inside the comments)… and I don’t see the same thing Richard sees.. do I see stupid, insulting, pointless comments? Yup..sure do.. do I see anything other then someone expressing their opinion? Nope..
Nothing in either the quoted portion of the comments..or in the original comments themselves is threatening..(and for the record, like Mr. Silverstein, I’m Jewish..)
In the comments posted to this article, Richard keeps stating that the original comments stated that the commentor was advocating violence and genocide… maybe I missed it because its 1:30 in the morning..but I didn’t see a single mention of anyone threatening violence or genocide…
My take on the whole thing? Six-Apart/Typepad is correct in refusing to ban someone just because one blogger doesn’t like what he said. As I don’t use Typepad to host this blog.. I don’t know if Typepad customer’s have the same flexibility with Movable Type that you get if you run it on your own server..but I’d have to assume they do.. so Mr. Silverstein… If you don’t want people to post things you disagree with in your comments.. turn on the Comment moderation feature in MT and then you can choose to censor anyone who you want to.
Me? I’ll continue to support free speech.. even for the stupid people who shouldn’t talk, let alone breed. I’ve said it before (not here though..I don’t think) I might not agree with, or even like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
First let me correct a few misconceptions in your post. I did not in any way edit the hater’s comments. I merely appended comments of my own after his.
You’ll have to pardon me but saying “I hate your f’ing kike race & hope they die” isn’t threatening to you? Maybe my instinct for self-preservation is stronger than yours. And so if he said instead “I’m coming to kill you kike f’er at 5 PM today” that would be in a wholly different category as far as you’re concerned?
I’m not so sure deranged people like this one see such clear & lucid distinctions as you or I might.
You say no threat of violence or genocide? How’s this:
“come next pogram, you will be the poor f****n’ victims AGAIN unless you drown us in your mud and appocalyps (sp?) first.
-BUTT THE HELL OUT OF OUR POLITICS, ’cause you know, won’t be long (might already be there) until we are the new Nazis–of course, we must be more brutal than Israelis to achieve that, but still, considering….–could happen”
In my notion of Jewish history, invoking the word pogrom is the essense of genocidal violence. This apparent neo-Nazi hopes his ilk come to power through brutal means–& toward whom do you think he would direct his brutality?
Thanks for your advice but you are mistaken about comment moderation. There is no comment moderation feature in Typepad. Typekey only works in MT.
Free speech absolutists like you ignore several important things. First, hosted blogs like those of Typepad are not public space. While they are on the internet which is public in a sense; this is in effect Typepad’s private property. Typepad is not the government. It has no obligation to allow anyone to say anything in its blogs. In fact, you neglected to mention that this hater violated 12 diff. aspects of TP’s TOS. Why have TOS if you believe in absolute free speech for everyone everywhere? TP’s TOS indicate that it maintains standards of speech, yet it refuses to enforce them. If TP wishes its space to be absolute free speech zone, then it shouldn’t have TOS; or it should have TOS that say “the only way you’ll be banned here is if you threaten to kill somneone.” But that’s NOT what they say.
You’ll have to pardon me but saying “I hate your f’ing kike race & hope they die” isn’t threatening to you?
Richard, perhaps I missed it..but I was unable to find this quote in any of the original comments on your site. I even just went and re-read them now, perhaps you interpreted one of those comments to mean that? I took them at face value… that they said what they wrote, no inference, nothing else implied. I find that when dealing with a text medium, that works best.
You say no threat of violence or genocide? How’s this:
“come next pogram, you will be the poor f****n’ victims AGAIN unless you drown us in your mud and appocalyps (sp?) first.
To me..that is as much of a threat as someone saying “With the next Spanish Inquisition, you’re all going to be victims” Its this whackjob’s opinion that next major world conflict, someone will go after the Israel nation…again. There’s enough people out there who dislike everyone else, that in the next World War, EVERYONE is going to get attacked…
In fact, you neglected to mention that this hater violated 12 diff. aspects of TP’s TOS. Why have TOS if you believe in absolute free speech for everyone everywhere?
I haven’t read all of TP’s TOS..but most TOSs I am familiar with apply to the site-owner… not necessarily to site visitors who don’t have a contract with TP. I do see that TP’s TOS does attempt to include commentor’s (Guests according to the TOS). Honestly, unless there is a link to the TP TOS from every TP hosted site’s comment section, I can’t see how TP would expect a guest to read the TOS in order to know what is/is not covered under there (not that most people, myself included, would even bother to read the TOS before posting a comment somewhere)
My guess is, that TP is treating this as a isolated occurence for this commentor, and, just like you generally can get a lighter sentance for your first offence.. they, as is their ability according to the TOS, are taking a less drastic approach to it, and giving you the option to delete the comments yourself.
I’m registered w. Typekey, yet validation failed when I tried to use it. Don’t know what’s going on.
I think it would be a good idea for every blogger to have a short statement appearing above the comment box describing what types of comments would get someone barred from their site AND to have a link to the TOS. That wouldn’t be hard to do. In fact, I may get in touch with Typepad’s support staff (that is, if they’ll still talk to me–kidding sort of…) & ask them if there’s a way to do this.
Writing four racist comments is NOT “an isolated occurrence.” I don’t think Typepad is giving this incident as much consideration as you give them credit for. And besides, since they cannot track commenters in any way they’d have no way to know whether he offended serially (that is unless a blogger reported him & my hunch is that very few if any bloggers report any offenders to their blog host/provider). So it’s unlikely they’ll know this data alas.